The thing I have been looking forward to most this year is World Fantasy in Toronto. It was going to cost more than I can afford to get there (including most of my remaining United frequent flier points), but it is an event that Kevin can get to relatively cheaply and I haven’t seen him for almost a year now. Also my friends Liz Hand, John Clute and Gary K. Wolfe are all on the Guest of Honor list. But now it looks like I can’t risk trying to go.
Via this article in the Independent I have discovered that the USA is insisting that its “no fly” list be enforced for all flights to North America, not just ones to or transiting the USA. Having been denied entry to the US, I am almost certainly on that list. But even if I am not, I can’t afford to find out. That’s because the only way to know for certain whether I’m on the list is to buy a ticket and turn up at the airport hoping to travel. I have already wasted the cost of a trans-Atlantic air ticket once, and that was when my business was doing reasonably well. I can’t afford to do so again, especially now.
Kevin has already fulminated about this on his LiveJournal, with predictable immediate results in the comments. I’m sure that there are very many people in the USA who believe that any measure, no matter how draconian, is justified in order to protect their borders. What I don’t accept is that you can be convicted of being a danger to the US simply because one immigration officer deems you “suspicious”, and that there should be no way of clearing your name without recourse to the sort of money you need a lottery win to obtain.
That SO sucks. And makes me mad on so many levels. I have a friend who can’t get into the US to do his Ph.D at a US university where he has a place, even though he is being sent by a reputable institution with the backing of the government, on a full scholarship. The reason? Terrorist ties. He hasn’t the faintest idea what they are talking about, and — of course–has no way of challenging it or having anything explained.
I’m so sorry to hear this. This extension of US requirements is unfair and unreasonable.
Insert stream of loudly expressed expletives here.
Some days I really hate the things my country is doing.
I would judge it unlikely that you’re on the no-fly list, which only has two or three thousand names, and certainly isn’t a list of everyone who has ever been denied admission to the US. But I agree that it’s a risk. And I also agree that Canada and Mexico have no business allowing the US to exercise control over their airspace.
This is horrendous on too many levels. I’m so sorry that you’re having to deal with this. The burden of proof in the US seems to have dropped to the level of vague suspicion. And why are we and Canada going along with this?
Mike, Michelle: I don’t think that the governments in the UK and Canada have had much to do with this. The US has put pressure on airlines such as BA and Air Canada. If they want to continue to have access to US airports they have no choice but to comply. The only option for the UK and Canadian governments is to threaten some sort of retaliatory action.
Cheryl,
Thanks, that makes sense. So it is a less that our government has capitulated than that it has decided not to take a stand. Which is regrettable but hardly a surprise.
There is too much foolishness in the world; and too much of it is motivated by fear and/or the desire for control.
That’s awful, Cheryl — it totally, totally sucks. And how horrible that the US has imposed its disgusting laws on our neighbors. I’ll miss you …
love,
Liz
Miss you too. Hopefully you’ll be back in the UK again soon.
Oh, no. 🙁
I was hoping to see you there, too.
Many of us find our government obnoxious and worse than obnoxious, but this sort of heavy-handed behavior with sovereign countries who are allies still seems surprising. (Every time I think I have lost my capacity to be surprised, there’s something new…)
If it’s an airline thing, in response to pressure, then would it be possible to find an airline that would not respond to such pressure?
Somehow I don’t think any airline would allow you to board (in which case they would surely have to refund you) if you were on a US no-fly list and they are going to kowtow to this US directive.
And as Mike said, I doubt you are on an actual no-fly list, but rather on a “no US visa list” which is a different thing entirely, including as it does thousands of name is of suspected possible illegal immigrants, etc. Every country has that…
My friend had his student visa denied, with the reason given as “terrorist links” . Now he may well be on the US no-fly lists. He is subsequently having difficulties getting a visa to UK. As a scientist who goes to international conferences, he is deeply concerned, yet unable to fight it because he doesn’t know what he is actually being accused of.
Outrageous.
Good God. This is outrageous. I’m flabbergasted.
This is probably a stupid question, but is it possible to go from UK to Canada by ship, and then fly/drive from the Canadian east coast to Toronto?
It is possible, yes, but it would take a lot longer, and probably be more expensive. And I couldn’t use frequent flier points for it. Also I’d need a ship that had good Internet access to I could work.
FYI, passenger services across the Atlantic have pretty much dried up. There are cruises, but to travel from Europe to Canada I’d need to arrange passage on a cargo ship. Here’s one option. To use it I’d have to fly to Lisbon, spend 11 days at sea, and then get the train from Montreal to Toronto. The cost appears to be around €1000 each way. And there’s no schedule posted — I might have to stay in Canada for weeks either side of the convention.
11 DAYS at sea? :-O
What a load of crap. Unless I missed the news bulletin about you being an ax murderer, WTF is up with the US? Yeah, yeah, I know, preaching to the choir…..
Horrified and appalled to hear this, Cheryl.