My following up of Google Alerts on the Seattle bid collapse led me to an author blog where I found this:
My publisher and publicists urged me to go to ComiCon instead this year–the media exposure is much better there and they have some control that they don’t have at WorldCon. The publishers are treated as vendors at San Diego Comicon so they can bring in writers for signings and push for ads and exposure in the program–they’re giving the con money, after all. WorldCon doesn’t have that structure that allows the publishers to push like that.
Mindful of what happens when Neil complains about something, I’d ask you to bear in mind that Kat Richardson is probably only parroting back what the PR people at her publishers have said. The reason I am posting this is that I would like to hear comments from publishers (especially Random House). Do you really think that you are not treated like vendors at Worldcon? If so, what would you like to see changed? I have a sneaking suspicion that publisher PR people often don’t know what they can do at Worldcon because no one sells them on the convention, but the lack of a vendor membership probably doesn’t help.
By the way, I agree entirely about the media exposure being so much better at ComicCon. I think we can all agree on that.
I suspect that many misunderstandings would be solved by things like ComicCon calling themselves an “Expo” (which they far more resemble), than a “Con” (which they do not).
From a publisher’s standpoint, even in 90s the ComicCon was a far more productive show than the WorldCon. I imagine since then with the dramatic changes in the industry and the wild growth of the ComicCon, it’s even much more so.
Ok, as Cheryl requested via Twitter, I’m commenting here.
Here’s what you need to do, to reform Worldcon. First, you need to make it more commercial. You need to understand that SF fandom isn’t just the book-lovers; it’s the people who love anime, who love SF movies; it’s the people who die to get the next RPG.
You need to bring in attractions and guests for those things that are going to attract a younger crowd. Let’s be honest here. How many people at Worldcon are under 25? And who aren’t aspiring writers? You’re not appealing at a target demographic at all.
Make the convention hip and modern. Try to emulate Dragon-con or Otakon more in terms of programming–you’ll bring in more guests and have greater exposure. Do you know how many people would be trekking to Montreal this year, if you had the entire cast of Battlestar Galactica appearing?
So you bring in the non-book-readers that way. And then, to make them into book readers, you amp your dealer’s room way up. Don’t limit it to booksellers selling used books or people with awesome jewelery; stick them in a slightly separate section. Make the bulk of the dealer’s room an EXHIBIT SPACE for the publishers. Offer them discounts on the booths. Help them design big displays, etc. Tell them to get off their butts and give out free ARCs and posters and promotional material for the books they sell.
Lure the SF fans in, and then make them into book lovers by making the dealer’s room into a BEA-like space for fans, complete with author signings at company booths, all day long.
That’s how you reform Worldcon, in my humble opinion.
Jenny Rae:
Before anyone else says it, do you have any idea how much it would cost to get the whole cast of BSG to Montreal? ComicCon works in part because it is close to LA and the studios can ship people in cheaply.
The guest thing really annoys me. Worldcons have heaps and heaps of high profile authors attending, but they don’t promote that fact so everyone outside the usual crowd thinks that the only authors attending are the GoHs.
But you are right about it not appealing to young people at all.
Oh, I know, it would costs tons and tons of money.
But you’ve got high-profile authors there, lots of them, and they’re a resource going to waste. You even have them paying their own way to get there, and then they’re not being publicized adequately. I have to scroll through VERY LONG membership list on the Worldcon page to even figure out who’s coming. I got to David Brin, and stopped.
Jenny Rae:
Oy, tell me about it. As someone who has done PR for Worldcons it drives me crazy. For Glasgow we did actually list a bunch of high profile authors on some of the advertising, but it was like pulling teeth at times getting permission to do it.
Just coming back to the earlier post a minute, Worldcon does actually have signings all day long. For reasons of crowd control it mostly does this at a specific location rather than at tables. I’m wondering if this is actually a problem in that it deprives the publishers of a PR opportunity.
@Cheryl: Speaking as a Publisher and a Huckster, a signing away from your “home base” stall is going to be both more difficult to shepherd, and more draining on the nerves, than one at your table.
Whether the trade-off there in terms of security and crowd-control is worth it, is another question. Speaking as an Con Organiser, I’d be tempted to say “no”, especially if you scale up to Worldcon numbers.
The signings at a specific location might indeed deprive the publishers of a PR opportunity. I’m not sure how to solve that though, because I agree that the crowd control is an issue.
There has to be some way to explain that the big names are coming, even if you put up a link on the Anticipation site saying, “Other High-Profile Guests” or something nicely phrased.
Like, in 2006, in my first half hour of being in the dealer’s room, I met Robert Silverberg and John Scalzi. No one told me they’d be there. Scalzi I literally found because I recognized his family off of his blog.
In 2008, I felt like I missed almost every single person I wanted to see at Worldcon, big name authors and just friends, because I simply could not find them. It was too spread out. Twitter may help with that this year though; I can see it already helped at nycc. Then again, we’ll all be in Canada and paying high cell phone rates… =)
Jenny Rae:
You have given me an idea. Maybe what Worldcon needs to do is to work with publishers to help them advertise what they are doing at Worldcon. The simple thing is just to have a list of links from their web site the pages on the publisher sites, but unless you have something like Tor.com I suspect it would be hard for publisher PR people to get those pages made – big company IT departments being what they are. But maybe Wroldcon could provide pages for publishers to edit themselves.
And you know, all Worldcons these days have LiveJournal communities. There is nothing to stop people from dropping in there and saying “Hi, I’m attending.” As long as you don’t make the mistake of doing a heavy sales push.
Hi Cheryl –
I’m heading up the Visual Arts Programming Track for Anticipation – and I’ve already done some exploring into what you suggest with my publisher, Simon & Schuster. I have great personal relationships with the publicity department as well as the art department at Books For Young Readers – and we’re hoping to be able to coordinate some promotional efforts to better publicize some of the programming.
It’s still early-stage, but we’re working on it!
James A. Owen
James:
Thank you! Delighted to hear it.
It is what is making me fear going to Worldcon. That there is going to be no one who likes anime, comics and media and that 80% plus of the people there are going to be over the age of 50. I even hear from people who have been there that you should go to Dragon Con instead.
I would love to see more people (especially industry) sold on the con. VIz (largest Manga publisher) is starting a Science Fiction novel line, but they will probably be at San Diego over Worldcon (the readers and opinionists are at Worldcon as much as San Diego).
We don’t NEED another Dragon Con or ComicCon. I’m under 50, I like anime, comics, comix and various and sundry visual media, and you won’t find me attending either one, because the social aspect of World Con (and other general SF cons) is very important to me, and I find the social structure of ComicCon (well WonderCon, their smaller spring show, I’m not willing to brave SDCC) and Dragon Con very off-putting, as I do most anime conventions I’ve attended.
That said, I agree that better PR and leverage should be made of non-guest-of-honor guests for Worldcon.
Heck, I’m frequently a speaker on science and technology at Worldcon, as well as on the arts of costume/performance. I’d like to see more PR leverage made of the science track, as my company supports my going out to give those general audience talks on our research.
@13: That there is going to be no one who likes anime, comics and media and that 80% plus of the people there are going to be over the age of 50.
That’s a rather broad statement, and one I doubt you have the actual demographic numbers to support. Where do you get this stuff?
Worldcons are generally not big on organizing anime, comics and media events. Then again, there are whole series of conventions dedicated to those things. The average Worldcon does, though, have programming on those subjects. It’s just mixed in with programming on all sorts of other subjects. It’s very different from Dragon*Con’s segregated program
ghettostracks where people with different interests never have to mix together.As to the attendees’ interest? It’s all over the board, or there wouldn’t be all that different programming. The unifying factor, though, is that Worldcon attendees, regardless of other interests, generally are fans of written science fiction and fantasy.
The cost and travel does make attending Worldcons difficult for lots of folks starting entry-level jobs after college. I attended my first Worldcon when I was 24, and it was difficult (14 hour drive, hotel room shared with 6 people). It was worth it. There are 20-somethings and a lot of folks in their 30’s and 40’s.
VIz (largest Manga publisher) is starting a Science Fiction novel line, but they will probably be at San Diego over Worldcon (the readers and opinionists are at Worldcon as much as San Diego).
They don’t have to choose between the two, they’re weeks apart.
Comic-con International, though, is going to be more sales and profit. It’s in the same place every year. It gets buckets of industry sponsorship dollars. It’s 20 times the size of the average modern Worldcon. Worldcon will never match their numbers.
But should Worldcon match their numbers?
There’s growing feeling within the comics industry that Comic-Con International isn’t a comic con anymore; it’s a pop-culture genre media festival that doesn’t serve comic artists and writers. I’d rather not see that sort of change happen to Worldcon.
Seriously.
I’m all for trying new things, but if I want to go to Dragon*Con I’ll go to Dragon*Con (and I may yet, although I’ll probably hit SDCC first). I’ve heard they’re both great, but they aren’t Worldcon and viceversa.
@Tom S; I would recommend checking out the websites and reports from previous cons to get a feel for what goes on at Worldcon and who is there. I doubt Worldcon will ever be as media oriented as either D*C or SDCC, but it is certainly not strictly a lit con either and in fact I think I attended an equal number of media and lit panels at Denvention in the end.
I’m not sure making WorldCon into ComicCon is what is wanted. I certainly would stop attending if 20000 people started showing up to Worldcon.
But Publicity and Marketing could certainly be made better to show that Worldcons really are cool – and not just for the 50+ people (who may be in the majority, but I’d suggest not a supermajority).
Perhaps a “WSFS marketing committee” would help? Something that would NOT take over the marketing of each local Worldcon! But could promote templates, provide help in continuity of marketing, help making up plug’n’play media packets that could be used by the local committee, and help deal with national and international media.
The local committee would retain control of their own stuff, but this committee could act as central clearing house for information and contacts, assisting publishers and promoters in contacting the right people. Perhaps working with multiple seated Worldcon on “package” marketing deals.
If a publisher could contact one person and get a publicity package including the possibility of sustained promotion – ads in progress reports & con book, ads in next year’s progress reports (maybe even in PR Zero for that year’s site selection winner), dealer space, signing for their authors, give-aways in con-bags, whatever other promotions might be possible.
The marketing committee would in these cases really work as go-between and contact point. Not making the decisions, simply acting as conduit.
Having to contact six people (PR/Programming/Art Show/ConBook/etc.), none of them the same as last year, might be a significant hindrance to publishers and media promoters especially small publishers without staff, and big companies that just don’t want to waste the time dealing with amateurs (perceived or real).
@15 – Yes. The comics, animation, and cinema programming is being covered under Visual Arts, but none of it is really segregated. All the programming has ties (direct or indirect) to the core genres/mediums which make up the heart of Worldcon programming. There will be lots of opportunities to mix and mingle!
As someone who has attended a number of Worldcons, I can state categorically that there are plenty of signings at publishers’ booths and dealers’ tables, sometimes by the Guest of Honor.
The publisher or dealer in question arranges them. Nobody prevents it (though if the author is sufficiently popular, it’s only polite to notify the head of the area).
…and slightly off-topic (the ontopic bit: I don’t ever want to see WorldCon turn into Dragon*Con or San Diego Comic con but think that, yes, they could do a lot more to promote to publishers and appeal to a broader audience. Speaking as a Guest of Honour I can’t imagine feeling that any thunder was stolen by telling the world the cool people who are coming. There.)… something I’ve been asking about for many years:
Is there any chance of the Hugo bit of the organisation ever agreeing to a “Newbery” like sticker/medal/insignia for the covers of Hugo Award winning novels?
Watching the excitement over the Graveyard Book getting its Newbery Medal cover makes me sad that American Gods didn’t get a little gold hugo rocket medallion for its cover. Complaints that the Hugo is irrelevant etc always seem to me to come down to the fact that people don’t know what won, and all a publisher can do is mention it — sometimes on the front or back cover — on the next printing.
n
@20 Neil Gaiman:
I sort of like both the media circuses that are places like Dragon*con and the smaller intimacy of Worldcon, so I’d be happy either way.
But as Colleen Lindsay (another agent) and I were discussing on Twitter later… where are the YA readers at Worldcon? Where are the readers of urban fantasy or paranormal romance, both of which are justifiably speculative? Why does Worldcon seem to be ignoring major literary trends in the genre that are focusing on these areas? Eventually, you’ll lose the core base, if you don’t appeal to the kids who are buying THE GRAVEYARD BOOK or reading KITTY AND THE MIDNIGHT HOUR by Carrie Vaughn or watching True Blood on HBO. Not to be pessimistic, but if young readers aren’t somehow brought into the “Worldcon culture”…. isn’t it going to die off or be completely marginalized in twenty years?
On another note, I love the idea of having an official Hugo sticker for people to put on books. Maybe a gold one for winners and a silver one for nominees. =)
Neil @20:
Thanks for contributing!
Yes, as a matter of fact, it’s something the Hugo Awards Marketing Committee has beem slowly edging toward for a couple of years now. We’ve been considering launching a contest to design an official Hugo Awards logo that would be suitable for the uses you suggest. As current Chairman of the HAMC, I apologize for us dragging our feet. Most of the people most active have too many irons in the fire and therefore good ideas like this lie dormant until some of us get time to focus on them.
Jenny Rae @21:
Oh, boy, do I want to introduce you to the people to whom Worldcon is a 15-ring multi-media madhouse, much too large, noisy, and crowded for any sane person to want to attend. These are the people for whom Potlatch is the largest convention they’d consider attending, because Monster Huge Conventions like Worldcon are Evil.
I live down the street from San Diego Comic-Con, and have been there three or four times, and went to two WorldCons. Comic-Con does have publisher booths with a lot on display. They might have promo freebies like bookmarks and magazines. They have ongoing, hourly author signings at the publisher booths, and some (like Bantam) have the author sign and give away free books. Authors sign at the publisher booth, at a bookstore booth (like Mysterious Galaxy), or upstairs at the signings that are advertised and listed in the promo materials. It’s not so different from a WorldCon signing. Not all attending authors are listed in Comic-Con promo materials either.
Biggest difference (besides the overall crowds–120,000 compared to 3-5,000 people) is the cost. Comic-Con is $25 for a day, $75 for the weekend. And I know you mentioned the cost problem in a different post, that WorldCon is very cost-prohibitive. I bet there’s quite a few folks that would love to meet their favorite authors and buy stuff–but $200? For high school and college kids? They need a cheap student day pass, or a dealer’s room only pass, or discounts for at-the-door locals. Then you’d get the younger crowd, and the vendor types would be happy. Advertise at the colleges, at the comic stores, bookstores, etc.
I’m a twenty-something and I’ll be at Montreal, but by the time I travel to get there and pay the entry fee, there’s nothing left to spend in the dealer’s room. That’s why the age is skewed upwards; us younger folks lack the income. And I sure don’t want to see it turn into Comic-Con either. The only reason I go there is to track down an author or two, and it’s exhausting navigating everything.
I *like* big conventions that are all congregated in one place.
Worldcon seems SMALL to me. World Fantasy seems even smaller. Local cons like Luncacon are TINY.
I’m a people person though….surround me with a giant crowd of people who will talk to me, and I’m totally happy. =)
Traci @24:
That’s for the entire five days. Single days during the core three days are typically around $75 these days.
I tend to agree with you, but how cheap is “cheap” to you? Is $50 too much? $30? $20? And how do you stop people from “gaming” the system in some way?
(Worldcon’s core attendees have an obsessive fear that someone, anyone, might manage to find a way to get an unfair advantage, and tend to think that if even one person does manage to do so, then the entire system is unfair to the entire membership and everyone should get a refund. I only exaggerate slightly.)
L.A.con IV in Anaheim effectively had that with their “taster” membership. You bought a day admission (say $70), but if you came back within three hours, you could get a refund of all but $20 of what you’d paid. That is effectively a $20, three-hour dealer-room-only pass, although you could use your three hours however you saw fit — look at the art show and exhibits, see one program item, get to a particular author’s autographing, etc. Of course, this is only of interest to people for whom the only reason for the event is to hit the dealers room or some specific short-time event. For Worldcon’s core audience (ultimately, the people who will vote on where to hold subsequent Worldcons and on the rules of the World Science Fiction Society), the convention’s attraction is more than just a single program item or the Exhibit Hall.
Again, I tend to agree with you. But how do you do this in such a way that leaves you, the convention organizer, with less revenue than if you didn’t do anything at all? This is another obsessive fear of Worldcon runners. Remember that the convention is a one-shot. There’s no reserve. No do-overs. You can’t “make it up next year” if you lose money. You have to get it right the first and only time, and you’ll probably never hold another one, ever again, under the same circumstances.
So, you propose a “locals discount.” How do you stop people who don’t live locally from getting their local friends to buy memberships for them. What do you do about the people who don’t live locally protesting that it’s unfair and immoral to charge them more just because they don’t live nearby.
I tend to agree with you that the people who live nearby, within commuting distance of the site, are actually the most price-sensitive people. (That’s because for them, the only cost is the admission. For someone who has flown across the country or around the world and is paying $150/night for a hotel room, the membership is small change by comparison, especially because s/he probably bought his/her membership two years ago when it was (relatively) cheap.) However, I know that any scheme that introduces cheaper prices for locals, students, etc. will end up ticking off the very people who will decide whether you should hold the convention at all. Even L.A.con IV’s “taster” memberships were quite controversial at the time they were announced, and no other Worldcon has apparently tried to introduce them.
Yokohama, incidentally, actually had free exhibits-only admissions for locals. The convention was not swamped by tens of thousands of people the way some feared. OTOH, Yokohama was also the first Worldcon since 1990 to lose money, and you are unlikely to see another Worldcon repeat that sort of experiment unless someone with deep pockets is willing to underwrite it.
Well, yes, with some changes, you could turn Worldcon into something like D*C. For that matter, if you added SF authors and programming, you could turn the AVNs into D*C — they’ve already got the porn stars, after all. Add some porn stars and SF media stars, and you could turn the Sundance Film festival into D*C. For that matter, it only takes a few tweaks to turn one of those special interest cons I attend into D*C — show anime in the playspaces during the daytime, and make sure Jon Norman shows up…
But why would you want to? Why does *everything* have to be D*C? It’s no secret that I don’t care for it, largely because of the predatory practices that put the con where it is now, but why does EVERY event have to be an all ages behemoth? Honestly, it’s like saying that if EVERY restaurant would be better with a sushi chef. If I wanted f’ing sushi, I’d go to a Japanese restaurant.
I like young people. I’ve made a few myself. But the idea that EVERY con should be catering to them troubles me. We have become a culture that worships youth to the exclusion of much else, where the 18-26 set is given undue influence over what we eat, watch, wear, etc. I think it’s entirely reasonable to say, “Hey, there are great cheap cons with porn and anime and wall-to-wall Twilight fans waiting to sign autographs — AND when they grow up, there are places where adults go, to talk and drink and socialize and network.
I watch True Blood, I have more exposure to media than to books these days, I’m a college student, and I watch obscure anime. I also enjoy attending a con where I don’t have to be worried about drunk kids throwing up in the elevators, where the majority of people in the room have the life exposure to have really *interesting* conversation — and have had something other than ramen cooked in their hotel room to eat for lunch and dinner.
Love D*C? Great! Attend it. But stop trying to replicate it *everywhere*.
To get back to the original question: it seems to me that there’s a subtle but significant difference in the way vendors are treated at Comic-Con vs WorldCon. SF cons traditionally don’t have particularly interesting vendor space, or much space devoted to vending, and what they have usually isn’t very visually appealing. Both D3 and Anticipation officially call them “Dealer’s Rooms”, which really sounds barely a step above Swap Meet. At Comic-Con, vendors are in the Exhibit Hall.
I often get the sense at Worldcon (and some other smaller SF cons too) that the Dealer’s Room is the slightly disreputable uncle of the family, that people don’t really want around but couldn’t figure out how to uninvite. At the same time, there are some who are unhappy that more uncles don’t show up and pay to be shuttled off into a back corner.
Because of its size, ROI for publishers or any other vendor at WC is going to be a small fraction of what you get at a mega-event, and the cost of setting up at Comic-Con is not significantly different from the cost of setting up at Worldcon most years. Every publisher has some bean-counter telling them why they shouldn’t spend money to be at a low ROI event. Worldcon needs to have a stronger pitch than the bean-counters have – treating the people in the vendor area as a vital part of the show rather than a slightly diseased appendage wouldn’t hurt.
Specifics:
Better placement.
Better signage.
Improved decoration.
Media liaison.
Maybe local bookstore liaison.
Signings (or similar events) in or immediately adjacent to the vendor area.
(Re placement: ConJose’s was quite nice, next to a major programming hall. N4 and D3’s weren’t so nice.)
I know it’s hard to implement any kind of change due to the non-continuity with committees and jobs inherent in the Worldcon system, and the scattered layout that often get thrust upon said committees. I’m not a publisher, but I’ve spent lots of time as a vendor at shows of all sizes for over 30 years; WorldCon’s Dealer’s Room feels like shows I set up at in the 80s, and not in a good way.
Barry @28:
I’m not going to directly address the main point, because you have some good points I have no desire to refute, but I did want to talk about the Dealer’s Room.
Placement is not something about which you always have control. It’s often forced on you by the facility design. Given the available space in the Colorado Convention Center, where else could you have put the Dealers Room?
ConJose was good, but it could have been so much better. I really wanted to have the air-walls between the three exhibit halls down, and the natural path for people to focus on Exhibits in the middle, with dealers to one side and Art Show to the other, so that there would have been more natural mixing. And it would have made better use of our woefully underutilized central hall. (This is what we did at ConFrancisco, and I thought it was wonderful.) But there were very good reasons (mostly budgetary) for leaving the air walls in place. Had I know exactly how much money we would have a few months out, I would have insisted we spend that extra money in order to improve the convention.
@ Neil Gaiman:
I do know that the World’s Biggest Bookstore here in Toronto, which is owned by the Chapters/Indigo chain, has a section specifically set aside for award-winning books. I’ve seen Hugo and Nebula winners on those shelves, noted as such with signage that the store puts up.
But you’re right, there needs to be some way of attracting the attention of casual browsers in all bookstores. (I’m pretty sure I have seen references to Hugo and Nebula nominations and wins on some covers, but it’s by no means universal.)
To the rest of the topic: I’m someone who enjoys attending many different conventions, both large and small. Anticipation will be my seventh Worldcon (and the second I’ve worked on). I’ve been attending Ad Astra (300-750 people) for over 20 years, have attended and been on the committee of Polaris (formerly Toronto Trek) for nearly as long, and have been to five or so Dragon*Cons. All of them have something to offer, and I find that each is enjoyable in its own way. I see no reason to “reform” Worldcon – it’s fine just the way it is. New people discover it every year – the trick is to get them to keep coming, year after year, and to get them to get involved.
Kevin @ 21
You exaggerate, Potlatch isn’t the biggest convention I can deal with. Wiscon is the biggest convention I can deal with.
More seriously: there’s only one thing I wish Worldcon could do which it currently isn’t doing. That’s attracting locals who would otherwise never encounter “our” kind of fandom. Better publicity of the “big names” who are attending might be the way. I wonder if in the modern world of the intertubes a better way might be to goose authors to mention their attendance at Worldcon on their blogs. Growing up, the only reason I knew Worldcons were interesting was Isaac Asimov told me so in his collections of F&SF columns.
@ Kevin 29:
I’m not sure where else D3’s Dealer’s Room could have gone – I understand D3 had available space shuffled/cut on them by the CCC pretty late in the game. Sometimes, stuff happens. But I don’t find the placement of it there to be all that untypical of where vendor space often goes. (“Where shall we put the Dealer’s Room? Ah, nobody’s using this room…”) At ConJose, at the very minimum most attendees were frequently using the hallway that passed all the exhibit space, so they knew where everything was. At D3, there were still people asking me where the art show was, on Sunday afternoon.
These are good thoughts and help me understand the Worldcon a bit better. I love big cons because they get guests that no other cons are able to get. I am 30 (will be 31 in March) and want to try Worldcon this year.
I love big cons energy. It has a supernova energy that can’t be replicated (even though they tire out this younger body come Monday morning). I would love to see the major Science Fiction publishers at Worldcon with booths promoting their wares to the readers who really love the art form.
I would love to see a 10,000 person worldcon that has a few media guests and a lively media related track. I hear things like we should move away from a convention center and go back to a hotel con (attendance was at 4,000 people last year). An empty convention center doesn’t say good things to me about a con’s energy.
Denvention had an anime and video room. There isn’t anyone running an anime or video room at this year’s worldcon (not listed on their website). That could also be part of what the Visual Arts track person does.
I agree that which panelists, especially authors, that will be attending a worldcon should be given prominence in the publicity.
Worldcons should also be publicized locally early enough that locals are not obligated to pay the full at the door price of attendence. The discounted early rate should not be limited to old time fans in the know.
Its good to see that alternate forms of SF like anime and comics will be getting some love at Montreal, no doubt due to Neil being guest of honour.
I like the idea that Hugo winning works will get a Hugo winner sticker, this should help DVD sales too!
Maybe worldcon should not try to become Dragoncon or Comicon but neither should it become fossilized mired in the past.
There is no “need” without a purpose. I need food if I want to live. I need lots of money if I want to buy and maintain a yacht. Does everyone posting here about what Worldcon needs to do have the purpose of increasing publisher revenues? Making Worldcon more enjoyable for the poster? Or what?
David:
You are right, and I’m working on it. Hopefully there will be a post later today.
Fun thread, Cheryl. Attended several Worldcons, and several San Diego Comic Cons. Both are great. Worldcon has strong assets that it could maximize more if it wanted.
1. Names attract eyes – As noted previously by others, having so many bigtime authors, illustrators, publishers and personalities in one place is a great thing. By now, many creators have already submitted programming questionnaires to this year’s Worldcon. Therefore, prominently-placed publicity lineups such as this (online, print, or both) might be possible. Ignore the raccoon and swimmy font, but note the varying size of the type treatment.
http://www.austinsoundcheck.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/03/acl_2008_poster.gif
Worldcon can certainly achieve a more attractive layout than this one, but the point is descending point size and lots of names. If I was a newbie deciding whether or not to try Worldcon, seeing lots of names besides just the GoHs would not only be helpful, but would get me excited to come check it out.
2. Signage – Last year’s Worldcon was out-signaged by a John Deere convention that shared the same venue. That should never happen. Nothing has more inspiring, evocative visuals than science fiction, so why not use them to better effect? Worldcon can use sf-nal signage big and bold not only within the show, but outside of it. Case in point: every year, Worldcon has an Artist Guest of Honor. How about using that GoH’s artwork on huge banners that help orient the attendees within the venue (to the dealers’ room, art show, exhibits, etc.) and can help visually “own†the venue. As I said to someone recently, what illustrator worth his salt wouldn’t want to see his/her art as big as a small building? Here’s an example:
http://z.about.com/d/manga/1/0/H/Y/-/-/SDCC08_KuboBanner_500.jpg
Worldcon can push that notion of visual ownership even further by visually “owning†the host city with banners like this along the street, again using the Artist GoH’s artwork on these banners. It attracts eyeballs, generates buzz, and invites people to come check out what Worldcon has to offer.
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1117/1143610283_49f7b38296.jpg?v=0
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/76/197200075_db5785bc2c.jpg?v=1153758031
3. Use Art Show and art-related programming as a more effective weapon — It’s undeniable that Worldcon’s missing out on an entire generation of sf/fantasy artists and audience that would be a great commercial asset to Worldcon. Take a look at ConceptArt.org for example, an online worldwide community of 148,000+ registered users dedicated to sf/fantasy. Almost none of them attend Worldcon. These folks attend SDCC and other cons because there’s just not enough art opportunity for them at Worldcon. Case in point: ConceptArt.org holds real-world workshops where people pay money to come view sf/fantasy art, watch it be made, talk about it and network. What it has in common w/ Worldcon: 4-to-5 day event, lots of panelists over a running schedule, happens in a different city every year all around the world; large registration fee. What it doesn’t have in common w/ Worldcon: Attracts hundreds of pro and up-and-coming illustrators every time; provides continuous programming targeted directly at improving skills; celebrates traditional and digital approaches; celebrates opportunity in the video-game, film, and book industries, amongst others; attracts lots of potential employers for those attendees. Bottom line – Worldcon attracts lots of wannabe authors and many of them come for the social/professional networking/potential job opportunities. The same could be done for the art communities, and that’s a whole revenue stream of money and attention that would make Worldcon more reflective of the 21st century sf scene. In other words, I’m 100% in support of better PR for authors and publishers, but let’s not forget how much of an asset the art community can be to Worldcon in such a visually-attuned field.
Let’s go back to the “have the entire cast of Battlestar: Galactica” bit. It’s been noted that it would be costly (particularly depending on how one defines “entire cast”; just the leads, or all twelve Cylons, all 15 or so significant fleet characters including the killed off ones, etc.). I’d guestimate to get the big players (2 Adamas, Starbuck, Baltar, the President, Starbuck, Six, Tigh, Tyrol, Boomer/Athena) would easily be over US$100,000 including travel expenses.
Damn, that means they darn well better draw at least 500 at the door $200 memberships. Or around a 10-15% increase in attendance, just to break even. Because Worldcons are, hopefully, budgeted to have a very small profit based on expected attendance. As mentioned, each one is an entity in and of itself, with no chance for a do-over if the con loses money.
Oh, and it’d also completely destroy Worldcon.
Why? Because right now and traditionally, only the Guests of Honor get any compensation for attending Worldcon. And that’s expenses and/or a per diem, not appearance fees. A fair number of writers and artists, should a Worldcon start paying for random actors who are not part of the sf community (yes, some are. To most though, it’s just a job), will reasonably start wanting their own appearance fees.
You think Worldcon membership costs a lot now? Take a look at the fee structure for media cons where the “guests” (in quotes because they’re being paid to be there) are the draw. Extra bucks for good seats. Big extra bucks for sitting at a table with the stars. Charges for autographs. Etc.
And for most of these, the contracts specify exactly how much time the actor will spend associating with the hoi polloi and in what circumstances. You are *not* going to get to chat with Edward James Olmos at a party or in a hallway (no offense to Mr. Olmos, who may be a very nice person; I’m just using him as an example as the big star of the suggested show).
Not to mention that actors aren’t intrinsically that interesting. They’re not the ones coming up with the ideas or the lines. They’re just saying them. Some actors are very interesting people and fannish. Again, most aren’t. Bring in the BSG writers (particularly if you let me grill them on how idiotic, oh, just about all aspects of the Cylons are given my AI background…: -)), and they’ll certainly contribute to the culture of ideas. Actors, what you’ll get mostly are personal anecdotes about shooting the series.
San Diego’s a special case for a lot of reasons. It’s always close to Hollywood, and it’s grown to a size where it makes sense for studios to bring in actors for promotional purposes (as far as I know, Comic-Con isn’t paying appearance fees). Worldcon isn’t it, and it’s very unlikely to ever be.
The marketing idea struck me as one of the better ideas.
That, and trying to make the Worldcon.org look better. For a “large” convention, it sure does lack a lot of features, and “polish”.
Note, I do not have the skills to do the above, but is jsut something I think needs working on.
Granted, this is WAY off topic . . .
Last thought though, I do have to admit, it does seem as though too many publishers are going to the DragonCon, SDCC, etc. cons versus a Worldcon because the demographics are so much better (maybe in there own eyes) at those other cons.
On the topic of making Worldcon more like anime cons such as Otakon, here’s a discussion worth reading. It’s between veterans of anime cons, talking about what they like and don’t like about the con scene– including positive words for more general sf conventions. (The forum topic linked from it is good too.) If Worldcon were to think about appealing specifically to more media-oriented fans, I think it would do better to highlight the particular aspects of its own flavor that they would respond to, rather than trying to become another media con.
I do think one change that would help on the anime front is to make it part of the conversation. As noted above, anime programming has become a standard part of Worldcon, but it stays in its own separate track. As a would-be program participant, I’ve been trying to help in my own way by suggesting panel topics that could help break down that wall, and planning to include anime in discussion if I wind up on a panel where it could be relevant. (Unfortunately, not being a pro or a big-name fan, I’m currently batting .500 at making it onto the program at all, so I’m afraid this strategy isn’t really working very well.)
Tom G:
I think we agreed right at the start that the BSG thing was laughable. You are basing all of your attack on one very extreme statement. That’s a waste of our time.
Tom K:
The Hugo Awards web site got an overhaul a while back, and individual Worldcon web sites are getting a lot better. Something is supposed to be happening with Worldcon.org, but I don’t know where that stands.
John P:
Great stuff, thank you!
You think Worldcon membership costs a lot now? Take a look at the fee structure for media cons where the “guests†(in quotes because they’re being paid to be there) are the draw. Extra bucks for good seats. Big extra bucks for sitting at a table with the stars. Charges for autographs. Etc.
The only one of those things that Dragon*Con has is charges for autographs (and then only for the media stars). Don’t confuse D*C with Creation Cons.
You are *not* going to get to chat with Edward James Olmos at a party or in a hallway
Yes, you are, at Dragon*Con anyway. Many people did last year, when Eddie came through the bar, snapping pictures of all the great costumes with his little daughter in tow, and when he stopped by the Colonial Fleet party. I myself spent some time chatting in the Marriott bar with Gareth David Lloyd from Torchwood.
And the thing to remember vis a vis publishers, speaking as a publishing employee who works the booths at NY and SD Comic Cons, is that we need to get the maximum bang for our buck. It’s not a matter of scheduling — “do both because they’re weeks apart” is irrelevant — it’s a matter of yearly budgets. We have to pick and choose what we do each year. That said, I’d love to see publishers represent more at Worldcon — I’m just not optimistic about it. It’s also dependent on where the con is that year, of course — anything in Japan, for example, simply isn’t going to happen. 😉
A fair number of objections boil down to “Worldcon is a bad deal for publishers/too expensive/too inconvenient/poor publicity for authors because it moves around and acts inconsistently; put it in one place convenient to major media markets — probably near New York or Los Angeles — every year and run it with the same people, like Comic-Con.” (Yes, I know Comic-Con is a non-profit; I admire them for their success.) These arguments run up against what I sometimes call the Olympic Fallacy: the modern Olympic Games are very inefficient and expensive, but proposals to put them in one place to save money are answered “But it wouldn’t be special anymore!” I have elaborated further on this theme in my LiveJournal.
@29 Tom G:
Sure, flying the whole BG cast to Montreal would be expensive, and probably not cost effective. On the other hand, look at LAConIV, where there were ~20 tables set aside for autographing, but only 2 or 3 in use at any time. The only ‘media celebrity’ who used one was Marina Sirtis. A couple of phone calls to the right people would have filled those tables, at no cost to the con since it was local to many actors. It would have been an extra attraction for WC (which existing members could either enjoy or ignore, whichever they prefer), and by announcing those names ahead of time would likely have sold some extra at the door memberships. Even if all it attracted was 100 people who bought $20 ‘taster’ memberships, that would have meant mean an extra $2000 – not a lot of money in the scope of Worldcon but enough to make a nice dent in paying for the signage John P. would like to see.
@ 37 John P
Right on.
@37:
John wrote: “…provides continuous programming targeted directly at improving skills; celebrates traditional and digital approaches; celebrates opportunity in the video-game, film, and book industries, amongst others;”
These points – well-stated, btw – are at the heart of the Visual Arts programming I’ve been working on with Farah. It’s entirely to her credit that she asked to intermingle the different fields (all under the SF/F banner), and I think it was to your credit (already) via Jannie Shea that we want to increase the programming dedicated to workshops/instruction panels. My other initiatives regarding publisher promotion revolves almost exclusively around new artists in the field – I’d like to see the art side just as well-represented as the author side.
Less important than the fact that the con moves every year – and Cheryl is right, this is a con aimed at a “world” science fiction and fantasy audience – is the fact that publishers and vendors must deal with a different set of people every year.
One of the chief reasons that SDCCI, GenCon, and similar media cons work is that they are run by the same group of people every year. You have one contact for panel programming, one contact for guests, one contact for hotels and housing, one contact for advertising and programs, etc. Publishers develop long-standing relationships with people, not with the cons themselves. If there was a small and efficient core group of people charged with running the con every year, no matter where the con ended up, I think you’d see things change for the better.
For example, when I worked at Del Rey and I wanted to get an author onto a panel at SDCCI, I knew exactly who I had to call and how far in advance. Our convention marketing guru at the time, Jennifer, knew exactly who to contact about housing needs, and she always did it nearly a year in advance. But more often than not, when we were trying to find similar information for WorldCon, we were stumped. Most of the time we received no information at all from the con itself, and phone calls and emails went unanswered. It was extremely frustrating for everyone involved.
And as Jen has pointed out, publishers have very limited budgets for con participation. If you have only $20,000 for the entire year allocated toward con participation, and that $20k needs to also include housing, food, drayage (shipping booths and storing cartons is extremely expensive), you are going to look long and hard at where you’ll get the most bang for your buck.
I’d like to add to Kevin’s comment at #43. Again, I’m coming to this from the standpoint of assets that Worldcon already has that it can use more effectively. I’m gonna tie two things together here — the power of sf art, and Worldcon’s mission to move city-to-city every year. Both of these are huge Worldcon virtues, and if you doubt that, check this out —
Again, using the example of ConceptArt.org’s yearly workshop conventions that draw hundreds of sf/fantasy illustrators and audience members…..they’ve done these things in Austin, Seattle, Montreal, New Zealand, San Francisco, and other locales the last few years. This year’s event happens next month in Dallas, TX.
Here’s what should get Worldcon’s attention:
1. This event is 6 weeks away and was only announced in January ’09 and yet they’re gonna attract hundreds of sf/fantasy art afficionados, illustrators, and industry people. That’s barely two months notice, folks. Why are they coming? Because they want to meet the following visual creators and see what they have to say:
http://www.conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php?s=e0d75fdce4f4efdf4ea94b6362580871&t=147845
2. What’s more mind blowing than that? As of this moment, THE WORKSHOP DOESN’T EVEN HAVE A VENUE and yet people are killing themselves to come up with the $595 (yes, $595!!!!!) registration fee to come see sf/fantasy art, hear lectures, see folks create, network and get jobs. CA has a stellar track record of putting on killer events, so no doubt the venue will be announced any day now and all will be smooth. The stunning thing is that the absence of venue isn’t stopping folks from paying big $$$ and signing up for this event in droves, for nothing other than the celebration of sf/fantasy art and the making and appreciation of it. Think about how horrible this economy is for all of us — and yet you’ve got art pros and students alike (many of them dirt-poor) willing to shell out 3X Worldcon’s average registration cost to attend this event, and then fly in and house themselves for 4-5 days. Now I’m not saying that Worldcon should raise its membership fee to $600, so don’t even go there. That’s NOT my point. The point is the power of sf/fantasy art to attract big audience and big money, and that Worldcon often overlooks this.
3. And if you need further evidence of that power, look at the fervor of this community.
http://www.conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php?s=e0d75fdce4f4efdf4ea94b6362580871&t=147574
Note the places where these attendees live. You’ll see people from Ireland, France, the Netherlands, South Africa and all corners of the USA planning to come on two months of notice with NO VENUE yet firmly in place. If they don’t care about that, do you think they care that this workshop moves around city to city every year?? They’re so jacked up about the event that they’re willing to give up plasma, body organs, and even their grandma if it’ll afford them the chance to be there in Dallas. Now compare that to Worldcon, where some attendees claim they never even FIND the Art Show, much less know who’s in it or what’s in it.
4. Again, folks — the power of sf/fantasy art, when treated as a centerpiece attraction. This CA event won’t have any Hollywood primadonnas signing autographs. And next year it’ll be in a different city altogether (Shanghai, I believe). And the people will come in droves all over again. CA is selling opportunity — the opportunity to celebrate sf/fantasy art, to learn from it, to meet the folks who make it, to learn how to make it, to talk about it, and to maybe, just maybe, get some work doing it. Is Worldcon capable of this? Yes, if it wants to be, but that art audience and art revenue stream needs yearly cultivation. That said, I think this year’s Worldcon in Montreal has made early earnest efforts to start questioning how Worldcon handles art-related programming as well as the Art Show. So hope remains eternal….
A point of clarification for everyone: The primary reason that the publicity and marketing department of a trade publisher wants to participate in any large con is to A.) promote NEW authors, B.) promote new and backlist titles, and C.) promote their brand. Of these, promoting new authors is the most important.
It’s possible that having a new author at WorldCon is at cross-purposes with what many WorldCon attendees go to WorldCon for: socializing with friends, familiar faces from the book industry on both the writing and publishing side.
I’ve had conversations with some newbie authors who’ve attended WorldCon only to feel shut out because of their newbie status. Whether or not that is entirely the con’s fault is open to debate; I personally think that some new authors need to grow thicker skin and jump into the conversations they see going on around them at WorldCon.
But from a publisher’s perspective, their marketing $$$ has a specific purpose: to promote new writers to new readers.
This is why having panel programming where a new author can sit on a panel with more experienced authors, gaining new readers and a larger audience, is really important. Additionally, having those authors working the publisher booth on the vendor floor is anther great way to build up exposure for a newbie. But that means there needs to be sufficient floor traffic to make it worthwhile for an author to actually set up a booth. And that means opening up the floor to a much larger group of vendors, not just the used book dealers and jewelry makers (as cool as those things are).
What would be so wrong with approaching someone like Amazon.com to co-sponsor a WorldCon, something that might keep attendance costs down, which would in turn cause attendance itself to go up?
These are just observations. I don’t think it’s an either/or situation. There are a lot of smart people involved in this discussion; I’m confident that good changes are on the way.
Personally, I do not object to sponsorship, as long as it doesn’t go awry the way it notoriously did in 1987. But conrunners of the Worldcon stripe don’t have a lot of people who are good at managing such advertising, and the experience in 1987 left such a bad taste in people’s collective mouths that they tend to assume that all sponsorship is in that category.
Something on the order of 85-90% of the operating cost of a Worldcon is paid from a single source of revenue — memberships. Dealer table rentals, art show fees, advertising purchased in convention publications are all trivial by comparison
A sponsorship deal that actually meant something — in the sense of making a dramatic reduction in membership cost possible — would need to be on the order of at least $250,000. That would probably cover the convention center rental and decorator costs, and shield the convention from the single largest fixed cost, allowing them to take some risks like trying to get more total revenue by lowering membership costs and increasing attendance. As it stands now, the default assumption is that all that will happen if you lower cost is that you will lower revenue, because everyone who is ever going to attend Worldcon already knows about it and will never make a decision based on cost.